Comic 334 - Page 27 – A Warning

9th Nov 2018, 10:53 AM in Chapter 7
Page 27 – A Warning
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Comments:

chris-tar 9th Nov 2018, 1:40 PM edit delete reply
chris-tar
One day I went to my local Circle K, and I saw a white guy and a black guy fighting in a parking lot next door. Suddenly, another black man snuck up from behind him and sucker punched the white guy in the back of his head so hard that he fell on the ground and began having convulsions.
I never once saw a group of white people ever do this to a black person.
Otaku 9th Nov 2018, 2:47 PM edit delete reply
Otaku
Talk to other folks, and they have seen it. I grew up as a doughboy in central Iowa, so anytime someone took a cheap shot it was a white guy against another white guy. Given where I grew up, it also means I didn't see a lot of "serious" fights, either...

...so I cannot assume much about fights. Not enough data. ;) If I'm missing your point, sorry.
chris-tar 9th Nov 2018, 4:57 PM edit delete reply
chris-tar
OK. Here is another story. I left my wife's brand new bicycle just outside the door of a Subway while I had a sub made. There were two big bags of groceries on it. A black guy stole it while I was waiting and rode off. I chased him into his neighborhood and finally ran out of steam. Suddenly a bunch of Latino guys started cat-calling me, yes as if I were a woman, cat-calling me "hey baby", "nice A@%!".
I just turned around and walked home crushed and humiliated, but I guess I deserved since I am white. By the way, I have never stolen anything from a black person in my life. To my knowledge, no one in my family ever owned a slave. My grandfather was homeless during the great depression and ate a diet of bread and beans before he joined the army air-corps, experienced Pearl Harbor, and eventually retired after about 25 or 30 years of service.
I'd like to think they he earned what he had.
Otaku 10th Nov 2018, 9:11 AM edit delete reply
Otaku
You left something worth stealing (brand new bike and groceries) someplace where it was easy to steal. It got stolen. You chased the person on the bike someplace where people may have known him, but where it is unlikely anyone knew you. Some people saw a sight that is likely funny - one person chasing another on a bike - and mocked you for it.

The fact that I left out the ethnicity of everyone involved and could still relay the story is a strong sign that the ethnicity didn't matter. As I said, I grew up in an area where most folks were white, and we had white thieves and white mockers who would have just done the same thing to you under those circumstances. It is possible you were targeted because of your skin tone, but even if the thief made that claim... well, he's a thief so why take it at face value? Dude could be lying to himself, trying to justify to himself doing the wrong thing.

So no, you didn't deserve it because you are white. Part of me worries folks are telling you that, but it isn't true. They may believe it to be true, but they're either making stuff up to justify doing the wrong thing in their own minds, disturbed in the head, or parroting the beliefs of people who are disturbed and/or trying to justify stealing from folks.

What worries me is that you yourself are doing just that. You made a mistake. Yes, you should be able to safely leave your wife's brand new bike outside of the store while you go in to buy a sandwich but we don't live in a world that is remotely free of evil. It was an easy mistake to make, but it was a mistake. Making it about skin tone just adds to the error.

This might anger you, but if you want to make things about skin tone, I'm probably "whiter" than you. My ancestry is Norwegian, Swedish, Irish, Scottish, German, and British. Even before I started taking a medication with a side effect of making it easier to get sunburned, I could only handle about 15 minutes of exposure. Now? Five minutes of exposure is enough for me to develop a very, very mild sunburn. I grew up in the American Midwest, if that is relevant.
chris-tar 10th Nov 2018, 2:44 PM edit delete reply
chris-tar
I understand your desire to be an open minded, caring, loving person who isn't racist, but the fact is that there is a growing anti-white cultural and political movement throughout the world. The media blames whites for everything evil that has ever happened, and as a result, non white people grow up with a lot of hatred towards whites. Not all white people were slave owners, millions of whites had to work very hard to earn what they have. In addition, I had black friends growing up and I do not consider myself to be racist.
The man who stole my wife's bike was probably from Haiti (accent), and was most likely an illegal immigrant.
It is a statistically proven fact that illegal immigrants commit more crimes because they don't assimilate into society well because of language barriers, cultural differences, and lack of education.
However, legal immigrants are different, they make an effort to assimilate into the host country's culture, learn it's language, and are higher educated with skills that benefit the country. I welcome legal immigrants.

I later found out that the man who stole my bike regularly loitered outside of Subway, and even sat out in front of the Subway almost daily and would beg/pressure people for money. Strangely, the people running the store did nothing about this, creating an unsafe situation for customers.
Twenty or thirty years ago, I could have left my bike right outside the door of my local Subway without any worries of it being stolen. I know this because I did do that regularly and my bike was never stolen. The crime in my city has increased in direct proportion to the massive amounts of immigration it has experienced, its obvious.

"You left something worth stealing (brand new bike and groceries)" Are you saying that I deserved to have my bike stolen because it was worth it? No one deserves to have their property stolen from them sir.

Also, I fail to see why it would be funny to see someone chasing the thief who stole their bike down the street?
The area where I was laughed at was an area with a lot of non-white immigrants in it, in this case an apartment building with a lot Hispanic/Latino people who then began whistling at me, and saying "Hey Baby" "Nice A@#!", this is beyond mere "mocking", this is hate fueled rhetoric designed to demoralize me. Never in my life did I have anyone in my white neighborhood say things like that to me.

"So no, you didn't deserve it because you are white." Let me clarify, I don't think I deserve to be abused because I am white, I am simply pointing out what I see with my eyes in this world, and that is that since my country has experienced a huge amount of non-white immigration, crimes towards whites have increased.

"we don't live in a world that is remotely free of evil"
Yes, this is true, but I am convinced that crime increases directly proportional to the amount of Illegal immigration my country receives.
"Making it about skin tone just adds to the error" You are right here too, but unfortunately, most of the illegal immigrants are not white, and it is impossible not see that.
nagolax33 10th Nov 2018, 4:45 PM edit delete reply
Your xenophobia and justification for it isn't new. Hell my favorite author, H.P lovecraft, had the same rational for a good majority of his life. "Those immigrants are ruining New York! Look at the world objectively, this is all leading to the purging of the white race!"

Here's a copy and paste from a different context, but it mostly applies to your argument. I do this because I'm lazy and have had this tired argument too many times. Basically you're wrong.


vvvvvvvvvvvv

1.) None of the crime statistics evaluate white-on-white or black-on-black crime. This introduces a ton of bias into the overall picture that one presents. In particular, Atlanta is a fairly racially divided city and cross-race crime is going to be relatively unrepresentative of the whole. In all likelihood if you check the APD stats or whatever the highest incidence is going to be found in black-on-black crime. If you want to debate the whole thing from the point of view of somebody who's obsessed with racism, or abscence thereof, as a catch-all explanation for social coflict, by far the most striking phenomenon you'll see is internalized racism on the part of the black community directed towards itself. That's still a bit hokey, but...

2.) The more substantial problem here is that race isn't being considered alongside class and income. Again, the likihood is that you'll see this disparity drop dramatically once you account for the fact that black people are generally poorer. And we have a simple historical explanation for that: slavery. It's not as if black incomes dropped from a point in the past when they were equal to white incomes. That gap has always been there, and it's been (painfully slowly) closing since back in the days when a considerable majority of black people were property, never mind the question of income or even being allowed to own property themselves. And poor people pretty reliably commit crimes at higher rates regardless of where they are.

3.) Generally speaking, making statistics seem to say things is a 100 percent reliable way to say things that are bullshit. This is especially true with let the reader decide shtick like this, which also plays the rhetorically convenient role of absolving the author of responsibility for their claims. In the abscence of explicit claims, this is just a pile of numbers. I'll explain why in a moment, but this is also especially true with qualitative and non-predictive claims, because a.) all citation of statistics is selective and b.) qualitative claims are never self-evident in practice. That's why we have theory. Ask the guy what his explanation of these statistics is. That's also likely demonstrably bullshit.

Finally, even if dudebro were to make a real predictive claim here (e.g. you are more likely to be robbed by black people if you live in Atlanta--if it's meant to imply, as it likely is, that black people are bestial criminals, we're making somewhat less than testable claims) the validity of predictive statistical claims requires certain kinds of qualification and consideration. It's notoriously unintuitive.

Want to know a question 80% of doctors get wrong? Say I'm seeing a patient with Reddit Disease, which has an incidence of 1 in 1000 individuals. I give a blood test for Reddit disease, which is 95% percent accurate: it only gives a false positive 5% of the time or a false negative 5% of the time. How accurate are my results?

95% is the wrong answer. Pending other information, the correct answer is that my test is completely worthless, since the incidence of false positives is 50 times higher than true positives in a blindly selected population because the disease is rare. This is why I need other information. This is why statistics do not speak for themselves and why they need to be discussed in light of other contextual information.

so to TLDR that:

1.) The data is presented selectively and arbitrarily, in a way that seems set up to suggest that black-on-white crime represents a majority of the whole. In fact it isn't.

2.) The data is presented without discussion of the major theories of the causes of crime, as understood by sociologists et al, which makes it difficult to interpret. Conversely, those theories would use a different data set.

3.) The data is presented without an argument, which makes any exercise in debating it somewhat circular.

4.) We don't know if the case is representative, even if the data weren't cherry-picked to begin with.

Tp more fully explain the last point about meaningful incidence, here's a parallel. Say we know that black-on-black crime in black areas of major urban areas, driven by poverty, is a real problem. That fact still tells us nothing about the causes of crime in general, or any given crime. Even if we know the social mechanism of crime rates in that case quite well, we still need to know if it's generalizable. It might not be, and generalizing things is a science in itself. Presenting Atlanta as the paradigmatic case, without discussion, basically entrenches this mistake and hides it. This is arguably what has happened with a lot of criminal justice policy in the US, actually: very aggressive sentencing and enforcement directed at middle-class black people in Wyoming based on stuff that happens in Camden, New Jersey.
chris-tar 10th Nov 2018, 6:05 PM edit delete reply
chris-tar
I have a couple of questions for you.

1) If a white person declares that they love America and they believe that a nation should have the right to enforce its borders, would you consider that white person to be a "White Nationalist"? Yes or No?

2) Do you believe that white Nationalists are racist?

3) a) Do you believe that it is impossible for any non-white person to be racist?

b) If yes, is that because you believe that all non-white people are victims of white racism and oppression, and are therefore justifiably "prejudiced" towards whites?

4) Do you believe that all white people are inherently racist?
Otaku 10th Nov 2018, 8:29 PM edit delete reply
Otaku
Before I answer some of your earlier questions for me, I'll answer the questions you posed to nagolax33. Why? So you know where I stand on those issues.

1) No. I believe it is the duty of a nation to secure its borders. I would hope most of its citizens love the United States of America, though personal experience leads me to be cautious around those who "declare" it.

2) Was the lower-case "w" intentional or a typo? If you're not talking "White Nationalists" then just leave out the "white" in the front. If you are, then I recommend capitalizing the "w".

3a) No.

3b) N/A

4) No, unless we get really, really nitpicky with the definition of "racism". If we do get that picky, the term becomes meaningless as suddenly everyone is racist, and I get a fun parody song stuck in my head.

I'm a "conservatarian", an American conservative with strong classical liberal (liberatrian) leanings. Now, so that we can focus, I'll answer just one part of your previous post.

"'You left something worth stealing (brand new bike and groceries)' Are you saying that I deserved to have my bike stolen because it was worth it? No one deserves to have their property stolen from them sir."

I am not saying you "deserved" to be robbed but I am saying you made yourself an easy target for it by avoiding simple precautions. Even if you had no worries about human thieves, there are still curious kids or pets, or even urban wildlife that would still be a risk to the groceries!
BlueDragon 11th Nov 2018, 9:24 PM edit delete reply
BlueDragon
If anyone cut my hair cause I was making out with their boyfriend (you know, cause shouldn't she be made the boyfriend?) I'd kick their ass XD I've been growing it since....god 1996! That'd be a deal breaker for m, curse her! XD

Edit: granted, I never make out with other people's partners, but you know, I've been cheated on and my wrath was towards my ex, not the guys he cheated on me with. I actually liked most of his boyfriends better than him XD
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